Gupta programme advice

[nswarts]

Hi all
My wife, Juli, is a CFS sufferer and began the Gupta program about a month ago. We have watched the DVD's together and both feel positive about the background theory and technqiues that Ashok presents. Since starting the program, Juli's anxiety/emotions have increased as a result of having a busy mind and concentrating on the stop techniques and interrupting negative thoughts all the time. She is a very driven person and is giving the program an excellent go and I think she is somewhat dissapointed that she isnt seeing any changes yet. For a few days when she feels ok physically (still tired etc) and emotionally (has it together) she feels very positive about the program but then it can all become too much. Although I am encouraging her constantly that she is doing an amazing job and giving the program an excellent go, on bad days her self belief really plummets and doubts about the program become overwhelming. Can anyone help with managing these thoughts or give me advice about how I can be a better support and encourager.

In addition and probably not unrelated, Juli suffers from nightmares every night and constantly wakes up worked up, stressy and sore all over. The nightmares are often about being chased, being late, having arguements with people (mostly me), people not liking her etc. In my research, I often hear about CFS sufferers having nightmares, and it seems in this case Juli's nightmares are related to her fears. Can anyone provide advice or discuss similar experiences and coping ideas
Thanks to everyone
Nigel

[kenvj]

It seems to me she/you both are trying to drive the program - you can't do that. The program is about letting go and relaxing into it. Force the program and you'll just go backwards. Almost all CFS people are "driven" type people (type A personalities) - you have learn to let go - do lots of Soften and Flow in with the meditation. Also make sure to take Ashok's advice on breathing, incorrect breathing causes all kinds of problems with the nervous system. Learn to breathe properly, Ashok advises Pranayama breathing, I did this and it helped enormously
http://www.holistic-online.com/Yoga/hol ... tional.htm
Hope things improve for you both.
Ken

[Jj85]

piggybacking on ken, i'd agree that breathing and letting it all go are the two most important things to do.

i realized that i was a major chest breather, which kept me in this constant state of fight or flight as i was always breathing shallowly and rapidly. have your wife try going for minutes at a time with deep, slow breaths, followed by holding your breath for several seconds, and then exhaling even more slowly. that really kicks in the relaxation response. this always really helps my jitteriness.

i also realized that in order for me to recover, i first had to come to terms with being sick. only when i can completely convince myself that i can handle life with cfs am i able to start getting better. i'm not cured yet, but i'm convinced that the less you care about getting better, the more likely you are to actually get better.

[fox]

I would suggest NOT to hold one's breath,

just breath SLOWLY!

Or better, by the Stress Eraser biofeedback device!

[kenvj]

To follow up on breathing. Most people with CFS breathe poorly - most of those who breathe poorly breathe into the chest and breathe too quickly - but not everyone! I also breathed into the chest but I breathed a lot too slowly. Good breathing is 10 to 15 breaths a minute - I was breathing only just 8 per minute and sometimes less. I am presently working on increasing my rate of breathing. If you don't breathe correctly you don't get enough oxygen to the brain!
Ken

[niaholt]

When you breathe too fast, it increases the adrenalin output, keeping me in an alert sate. I echo everything Ken says. I was having nightmares, panic attacks thru the night in the beginning.....waking up in shock. I now know mine was adrenal related. I had to find that out myself...no doctor told me their were adrenal issues with CFS that made you feel stressed. I take a raw adrenal glandular for low cortisol output, especially in the mornings.

I threw myself at this program too forcefuly, feeling guilty if I was not concentrating on it enough and stressed myself further. I have known others to get well doing less so i am backing off now and going at it in a gentler way. Scenter

A Iowa Uni study says if we breath too much carbon dioxide we can trigger panic attacks, but the biological reason for this effect has not been understood. Researchers show that carbon dioxide increases brain acidity, which in turn activates a brain protein that plays an important role in fear and anxiety behavior.... fear processing is compromised in the amygdala.....it is too acidic

T

[spring]

Hi Nigel and Juli
Increased anxiety in the early weeks seems to be common. I suffered the same for about 2 months. Maybe it is the amygdala reacting to the challenge to change. Eventually you will come thru it Juli, just try not to be scared. Think of the days ahead when you won't have to feel like that any more.

You should find some interesting earlier posts on people's experience with anxiety by using the boards search function.

[fox]

breathing poorly and breathing SLOWLY are 2 completely different things!

Most people make a small break between the in- and out-breaths. You don't want to do that.

Breathe slowly, with NO breaks between in- and outbreaths.

If you properly breathe slowly, you will also automatically breathe deeply.

[Emergo]

Dear Nigel,

First of all, I want to say that I love you for taking care of your Juli this much. It's a real blessing to have someone who cares deeply about you by your side. I know this from experience!

On advice, my first thought is to contact Ashok. The programme itself is, as he says, developed to fit most people most of the time. I'm sure he has often dealt with people that are outside that general 'range'. He also insists that for some of us, additional sessions might be helpful. I think it's at least worth one call to see if he might be able to help Juli get through the first difficult weeks. On reflection, I think this is a MUST! I feel a great risk of abandoning a great programme - or at least giving it a fair chance - because of anxiety that it won't work.

Secondly, YOU might do the ART for her. You obviously know how it works, so it might be an idea that YOU yell STOP STOP STOP! every time she 'overreacts'. I'm not saying that you shouldn't take her reactions seriously, but when a CFS-sufferer is in 'that state', you often don't really notice how you are behaving. A partner yelling STOP confronts you with your behaviour and might make it easier to break the thoughts yourself.

Thirdly; be a safe haven. My wife has stood by me and often was so fed up with the ongoing situation, that she wasn't able to deal with it herself. So I know a bit about it. But she also very often managed to be my 'piece of peace'. I did not have nightmares, but I imagine you holding her and not only telling her that she is safe, but also pointing out why. This sounds a bit ridicule, like you should treat your wife like a little kid, but - again - people with anxiety aren't really able to see things as they are during the heigths of these moments.

I really hope your wife will benefit from the ART. It's the most simple and effective program I've come across so far on dealing with anxiety. Keep up the spirit and you will see those benefits, I'm sure.

Best,
E

[neil25]

This is a message to J85, i don't see how anyone can convince themself that they can cope with a life of cfs. Depends how severly affected you are, i can be pretty sevre and theres some days where i can't do a thing if it wasn't for my family helping me i would probably be dead by now. I'll be honest i stay as postive as i can but cfs affects my life on a daily basis. fed up of people saying accept cfs its blody hard to when no one can actually say what is wrong with you, its all just a bunch of theories theres no scientific evidence to back any of it up. the only breakthrough is the xmrv virus but this is still too early to tell with that.

[Jj85]

Well, it seems that we have this sort of debate a lot on here. I'll give it another try. And, I'll concede that I'm not very good myself at thinking the way I'm about to describe.

I'm not saying that we should give up hope of getting better. That's not what I mean by "acceptance." What I do mean is that we should, to the extent its possible, realize that, at any time, we have a choice regarding how we can feel, within a certain "range." Maybe I can't be ecstatic during a brutal stretch of migraines, but what I can do is say to myself: "right now I have migraines. This is my life, right now." I'm not thinking about how it would feel to be healthy. I'm not thinking about how much easier other people's lives are. I'm not stressing out over some argument I got in with someone over the illness. I'm not worrying about how this will affect my grades.

And MOST of all, I'm not thinking about the FUTURE. I'm thinking about the present. I'm not trying to escape my symptoms by imagining what life could/would/should be like if they find some cure. When we do this, we resist what's happening to us, and its this resistance which creates so much of our stress and unhappiness. "Not resisting" doesn't mean giving up hope. It means taking account of what's happening to us, in the moment, and trying to treat the present itself as neutrally as possible. I think of it as making friends with my symptoms, instead of trying to run away from them by imagining how much better life would be without them. This type of acceptance allows for some room to think optimistically about a cure, but at the same time, we don't want to become slaves of this hope. Until they do find a cure, clinging to a cure will only lead to more pain

The struggle--and again, I'm not exactly a pro at this-- is to realize that, while the pain is present, it's your choice how to think of the pain. The MEANING that we give to this disease is very powerful.

[Jj85]

Just a small add-on: I think that "staying positive" is also the wrong way to think about it. "Staying positive" implies that we're in this struggle to be happy or optimisitc DESPITE something. My point is that we should stop making it out to be a struggle. We should try as best we can to live with, or "inside," our symptoms (this is basically the S & F technique).

[efly]

Hi Jj85,
Well said .....
efly