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I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

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I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby Jj85 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:16 pm

This is a long post. Sorry in advance, but I gotta throw a lot of things out there...

Due to my recent use of adderall, things have been going much better. As I (and billoddie) talked about in other posts, it's almost as if adderall breaks Gupta's vicious cycle. For me, at least (I won't speak for Bill), it's not that I have to continue to take adderall in order to feel better. One dose, alone, is enough to stop the cycle and get me back to feeling 95-100% (as a reference, when I'm at my worst, I have terrible migraines, bad brain fog, weakness, jitteriness, etc... climbing stairs, for example, is doable, but not something I look forward to).

I realize that not everyone reacts well to adderall, and when I read things like this, it does more to convince me that maybe some of us simply have different diseases. In any event, I know that my own benefits may be due to the fact that my body can "handle" adderall. Maybe some of what adderall does is simply too severe for those who are worse off than I am.

But here's the weird thing. Adderall also makes me "jittery." It's just that I've realized it's a different kind of jitteriness. It's like a good kind of jitteriness, where I feel energized, and eventually, I feel calm. For the life of me, I can't think of why my CFS-type jitteriness feels so bad, whereas my adderall jitteriness feels good. Are different chemicals being released? Gupta talks all about these adrenal cycles, and at first, I was nodding my head, thinking, yeah, it feels like adrenaline when I'm entering a relapse-- like little needles are floating down my arteries, into my legs, eventually pounding on my forehead. But now when I think about it, it doesn't really feel like a normal adrenaline rush. It's just this discomforting feeling, and the closest word I have for it is jitteriness, but really, it could be anything. It's like this weakness, combined with this feeling of being on edge. It's not even that bad, and yet I really, really, hate the feeling... I guess the point is that the English language doesn't have a word for the feeling, so we (maybe just I) just grasp around for the right word. So, do we actually know it's adrenaline? Shouldn't there be a way to find this out?

Anyway, I think some research needs to be done into what it could be in adderall that helps halt this cycle. I know billoddie mentioned dopamine, and maybe that's it? The other night, I was feeling something bad coming on, but the next morning, I took a pill (and then even did some light exercise), and once the adderall hit me, I felt all better... and once it was out of my system, I still felt good, and still do now.

On one hand, it is good to see that how adderall works does seem to support Gupta. For me, CFS behaves very much like a cycle. When things are good, I can do way more without feeling any bad effects. In other words, if the cycle hasn't started, it takes way more to get it going. But once it has started, the smallest things will continue it. The one constant is stress/cortisol (was just reading about how exercise increases cortisol levels, which might explain why we get post-exertional malaise?), which is always correlated to my symptoms, no matter what kind of stress it is: worrying or getting angry about school or relationships, hearing loud noises, etc etc...
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby Graham » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:20 pm

Interesting... I get the jittery feeling too, and it's like you describe: hard to put into words, but just really unpleasant. It's like a sort of anxiety excitement that just somehow feels horrible.

Since starting the Gupta programme a couple of weeks ago, it's not as bad. I was wondering if there's some medication that can inhibit the release of adrenaline long enough for the body symptoms to recover, thus breaking the cycle. But Aderall sounds like a stimulant; I'm not sure how that would help things.

Cheers,
Graham
http://cfs-survivors.org/blog
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby neil25 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:35 am

im really quite keen on trying adderall but i dont think any doctor will prescribe me it, so i guess thats a waste of time. I'm not sure if adrenaline is involved i do feel worse when i get excited about something like watching a funny movie can trigger my symptoms but then again there is no proof its all speculation just like every other theory. I wish we had some concrete evidence but doctors are too lazy to research cfs.
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby CS1 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:19 pm

Yep I spent 4 years looking at the biochemistry involved in CFS - I thought it was all about heavy metals, pathogens etc etc which it is but its the stress response that keeps them locked in.

From my own experience toxins are involved but it is your STRESS response ( stress hormones) which keeps all these nasties inside.



Regards
CS
Last edited by CS1 on Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby annie » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:35 pm

The more i research breathing and notice my own 'bad' breathing patterns the more i realise that my whole body could well be out of sinc. from many, many years of faulty breathing. I recently got the book Hyperventilation Syndrome by Dinah Bradley, it is an easy to read, concise, scientifically researched study of breathing. I don't hyperventilate, i hypoventilate, i.e don't breath enough. I breath too little and too deeply. this pattern must have caused the oxygen / carbon dioxide balance and the acid /alkali balance to be very faulty. My brain has probably not been getting enough oxygen etc etc.
I know several other forum members have found breathing properly to be helpful. I think it could relate to the huge biochemical problems so many of us find in tests.
There may well be other factors e.g. XMRV causing all out problems, but i do think it worth while to check our breathing and correct it, it is free too!!
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby CS1 » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:24 am

As I become sufficiently Parasympathetic I am detoxing slowly and releasing the toxins slowly from my body.



Regards
CS
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby kenvj » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:18 pm

[quote="CS1"]As I become sufficiently Parasympathetic I am detoxing slowly and releasing the toxins slowly from my body.


Hi CS1. I am wondering if you take any type of medication (natural or medical) to help you to detox?
I have been reading that Neurotoxins, many of which are common Biotoxins, acutally move in on the nerves themselves and invade the central nervous system including the sympathetic nervous system. Dr Shoemaker believes that Neruotoxins are the cause of CFS.
I am taking "Modifilan" in addition to Iodine - both are detox agents and both support the Thyroid. I've been sleeping so much better, have more energy and I'm able to urinate better. I have Prostatic Hyperplasia and the prostate comes second to the thyroid in its requirement for iodine, which is why its helping.
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby Jj85 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:31 am

Graham,

I was also skeptical of adderall for that very reason. I knew I needed to at least try it in order to see if it would help me study by getting rid of brain fog, and to my surprise, I really did get LESS jittery (and the brain fog disappeared too). I'm not a doctor, so I can't explain why this would be, but don't let the fact that it's a stimulant stop you-- our symptoms (or at least this one symptom) sounds pretty similar. You should try to give it a shot.
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby CS1 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:22 am

Hi CS1. I am wondering if you take any type of medication (natural or medical) to help you to detox?
I have been reading that Neurotoxins, many of which are common Biotoxins, acutally move in on the nerves themselves and invade the central nervous system including the sympathetic nervous system. Dr Shoemaker believes that Neruotoxins are the cause of CFS.
I am taking "Modifilan" in addition to Iodine - both are detox agents and both support the Thyroid. I've been sleeping so much better, have more energy and I'm able to urinate better. I have Prostatic Hyperplasia and the prostate comes second to the thyroid in its requirement for iodine, which is why its helping.



I believe the cause is some sort of stress /stresses in your life and toxins.

Stress :
Gupta techniques
PACing




Regards
CS
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby Graham » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:10 pm

Jj85 wrote:I was also skeptical of adderall for that very reason. I knew I needed to at least try it in order to see if it would help me study by getting rid of brain fog, and to my surprise, I really did get LESS jittery (and the brain fog disappeared too). I'm not a doctor, so I can't explain why this would be, but don't let the fact that it's a stimulant stop you-- our symptoms (or at least this one symptom) sounds pretty similar. You should try to give it a shot.


Interesting. I don't really get bad brain fog; I just get so tired that I don't want to have to think hard. But when I'm not so tired, I have no trouble reviewing complex engineering designs for clients, or building a website to sell my ebooks. It's more about losing motivation than ability. I've been less jittery since starting the Gupta programme, and my symptoms seem "relatively" mild compared to other CFS sufferers. For the time being, I think I'll stick to the programme as-is, and avoid putting anything psychoactive into my body.

Cheers, Graham
http://cfs-survivors.org/blog
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby CS1 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:19 am

other additional stressors seem to revolve around heavy metals - however the only way to get these out seems to be to become even more PARASYMPATHETIC!





Regards
CS
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it is about adrenaline AND everything else

Postby brunetta » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:58 pm

Addrall is speed! Jittery? Of course. Note it is very addictive. I can't see how it would be good for someone with CFS because, if your amygdala is stuck in overdrive, it is constantly overstimulating the adrenal glands - such that your cortisol levels are either always too high, or, at the exhaustion point, are well below normal. Speed is going to push your adrenals yet further.

I went to a naturopath - among other things, I take Isocort and a high quality adrenal complex; if you take too much, you feel a little speedy, and you also make your adrenals shut off - so you become dependent on the isocort and your adrenals don't get to heal. So you have to have a doctor to work with in this area.

D-Ribose is essential. It is a pentose, a five-character sugar; it's not like taking sugar, however. It feeds the mitochondria in your cells, which are not being fed at normal levels if you have CFS.

If you go see a naturopath, make sure they are licensed - Naturopathic Doctor, not just a naturopath. Anyone can call themselves a naturopath. N.D.s have all the training of M.D.s without the internship.
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Re: I wonder if it's really about adrenaline...

Postby alicewoolf » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:37 am

Brunetta I found your post v. interesting. Could you tell me which brand of adrenal supplements you take? I am sure my adrenals are exhausted as I have the classic symptoms of adrenal insufficiency, but there are so many products that I'm confused. thank you. alice
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