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a cure or not?

Discuss The Guptra Programme's Amygdala Retraining Techniqes

How much have the Gupta programme helped you in "1" to "10"

1- No Cure
2
14%
2
0
No votes
3
4
29%
4
0
No votes
5
0
No votes
6
3
21%
7
2
14%
8
1
7%
9
1
7%
10 - Fully cured
1
7%
 
Total votes : 14

a cure or not?

Postby Tjeerd » Mon May 10, 2010 12:28 pm

Hello everyone,
I'm a dutch (apologies for a misspell) man and new here. I'm looking here for my sister (37 years old) who is very sick at the moment from CFS. Since christmas 24 hours a day in a dark room in bed doing nothing. Bud she is sick most of here life with good and bad times.

Yesterday i found the Gupta Programme in a dutch article on his site and i'm verry interested in it. Especially because i'm already a NLP-Master practitioner and Gupta is also using NLP.

It's a little difficult for me to read al topics in english, to read al experiences, so i woud very appreciate it if people give a short answer agout how good Gupta has helpt them.
And maybe give a number how much it helpt you. So "0" totaly no cure and "10" fully cured. (although "cure" is not the right word if Gupta is correct. Than is CFS something you have learnd wrong and not a ilness.)
Better: Know i see i can make a poll of it.

I just need a clear answer because i dont want to bother her again with just another therapy which promises cure, but finally only cost a lot of her very precious energy and time.


Everybody already thank you for your answer.
Greatings,
A very helpless brother,
Tjeerd
 
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby *Emerald* » Mon May 10, 2010 2:00 pm

Hi,

I have not found a cure in AR (as yet) but im so pleased i started
it. My life now is a million miles away from when i first read about
the Gupta prog.

I recommend it
User avatar
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby Tjeerd » Tue May 11, 2010 11:40 am

Thank you for your reply.
She is now too sick too listen or watch the DVD's, but i'm thinking to buy them myself, just to see what it is, and maybe help here with the first part.
I'm also curious about the NLP-part.
Tjeerd
 
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby neil25 » Tue May 11, 2010 3:08 pm

Hi there,

Im so sorry to hear about your sister? is she on any medication? I was like her about a month when i first got ill, i was stuck in a bed for the majority of the time and even found it difficult to eat as i didnt have the energy. One of the biggest helps was taking vitamins and herbal medication. I take about 20 vitamins a day but this keeps me going without these i would probably be stuck in bed. I tried the gupta programme but it wasnt for me it help with the stress but didnt help much with the physical symptoms. If want to message me I can tell you which vitamins i take to help.
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby pam11 » Wed May 12, 2010 3:25 pm

I found Gupta very helpful. You can watch the first 3 sessions on Youtube. I remember how scared I was when I had to lie down all the time. It's important to be calm. It's hard to do but if she can't watch DVDs yet maybe she could listen to soothing music on CDs. That may help her calm down. If that's too tiring, she could breathe slowly and count the breaths. It's very important to calm down. She will get better!
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby niaholt » Thu May 13, 2010 3:01 am

It has not cured me but taught me heaps. Glad I did it. My friend bed bound for 13 yrs is out of bed. Another acquaintance is up and about.
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby neil25 » Tue May 18, 2010 10:07 am

personally I don't view CFS as a mental condition. So I don't think that by changing your thoughts your going to be cured. However you can improve your mood drastically by changing thoughts and doing meditation. As for the physical symptoms there still there. I don't believe its all in the mind i know its a physical illness. These are just my opnions I know many think differently.
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby niaholt » Tue May 18, 2010 2:39 pm

It is NOT a mental condition.....it is physical condition. However the over stimulation of the Amyygdala leads to a domination of the Sympathetic Nervous system....this has been well researched. The result is a near shutting down of the Para sympathetic nervous system that controls detox, the ability to relax an calm the body.

The consequences are a hyped up body system, with multiple symptoms exacerbated by the body being "turned on" When in the body is in this condition, naturally we become anxious, depressed....think crazy thoughts. It all becomes a roller coaster. Stopping the thoughts rests the body. Proper breathing helps the Para to get a handle on some of this stuff. Personally I dont have much faith in XMRV being the cause and nor does my DR. Too many have tested negative.
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby Ian » Thu May 20, 2010 2:15 am

over stimulation of the Amyygdala leads to a domination of the Sympathetic Nervous system....this has been well researched.


Really, because it very much looks like 1 persons unproven hypothesis. There is no science behind this. Much like the other, your brain is disfunctionaly therapies like the mickel therapy which blames the hypothalumus. If these people really cared about CFS patients, they would just put the information out, for free. And if they really worked, I'm sure the information would already been out in the wild for the public to see.
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby kenvj » Thu May 20, 2010 4:19 pm

Overstimulation of the Sympathetic Nervous System, of which the Amygdala is a component, is quite definitely a well reseached cause of anxiety, fatigue and other unwanted health conditions. It is well researched and accepted - just have a look around the internet you can find heaps of info about it.
"If these people really cared about CFS patients they would would just put the information out for free"
There is always someone who comes up with this old and worn out line! Tell me, if you spent years of work and research and invested thousands of dollars producing a really top class product would you then just give it all away for nothing and go on the dole?
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby Tjeerd » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:49 pm

First, thanks everybody for the ractions, en second, my apologies for my late reaction. Bud we were very busy because my sister is in hospital now.

I have purchased the gupta-programme already and i hope it will help her in a later stadium.
At the moment she is still very ill bud the is a very little progress.
Her main problem at the moment are her anxiety's and panic attack's. So i have good hope the gupta program can help her in the future.

And is it time for a little conclusion....?
For the moment there have been 4 people who has "voted". And there have been 370 views at this topic. So it looks like there are many people interested in the gupta-programme and only a few has purchased it and has experience with it.

I hope more people will write a reaction/experience here.

Greatings,
Tjeerd
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby Graham » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:25 pm

I've been doing Gupta now for 6 months, and I look at it as a stress-management programme for Chronic Fatigue. I don't think it is a cure in it's own right, but stress has a major influence on the immune system, so I do think it leads to a faster recovery. Stress and anxiety have been a huge part of my illness. 6 months down the track, I'm no longer anywhere near as fearful or stressed as I was.

If you want to check the uncensored account of my emotional rollercoaster ride doing Gupta, check out the archives of my blog at:
http://cfs-survivors.org/

Cheers,
Graham
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby lili2701 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:56 am

Hello!

So how is your sister now?
I also know someone who was housebound and feels so much better thanks to Gupta. She also sees a CFS specialist who helps a lot but she believes Gupta has helped her as much as the supplements she was prescrbed.
It helps me too, I feel calmer and better when I do Gupta, combined with EFT.

Good luck to your sister!
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby billoddie » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:09 pm

hi. i haven't posted for a while, but i will let you know my experience of gupta.
i started Gupta about 18 months ago, after, like many of us, coming to the end of my tether.
I was skeptical, and reluctant to do the process. I forced myself to. I noticed immediate benefits.
fast forward 18 months. My life is massively and dramatically better. 1000 % better. BUT...I AM NOT CURED.
I know this sounds contradictory, and to an outside observer, i look like someone who is fit and healthy who participates FULLY in life.
heres the picture: I weigh 70 kilos, and am quite lean and muscled. I do 3 yoga classes a week, 3 gym sessions, and sometimes 3-4 sessions of boxing of between 1-2 hrs duration per week. I have 3 casual jobs that generally sees me working about 35 hrs per week. i have a girlfriend.
sounds good.
but all of this has to be carefully managed. I constantly BATTLE anxiety, depression and stress.
If the stress bursts through my "fluster point" (which is constantly variable) then I am on a downhill slide one way into bed.
Life is not fun. it is not easy. it is not natural. everything is carefully "Stage managed".
And frankly, i am over this as well. yes Gupta has helped enormously.. BUT it has only been a MANAGEMENT tool.
the substrate that CFS is, is still there. I call it the "master program" that at will rewrites itself straight over the top of any treatment, medication/supplement. I heard another person describe his CFS as "the Kommandant" who simply must be obeyed. If the Kommandant says so, then you have no choice...it's off to bed. the kommandant is dictating the terms...you are along for the ride whether you consent or not. This is what is true for me. I am still held to ransom. i am not "free" of it. "IT" is still ultimately dictating the terms of my life in one form or another. some days i want to buy a Porsche 928 (my dream car) an start achieving all my goals...the next day i'm wishing to jump in a campervan and escape to the bush on a pension. Who can live with such wildly fluctuating uncertainty? So yes, negativity is still very dominant. I cant seem to be rid of the inherent "seed" that this negativity grows from. When i started gupta, i was doing the stops over 100 times a day. sometimes i still have to. I am over "doing"...doing the stops...doing the soften and flow...doing doing doing. I want NATURALNESS...EASINESS...INNER SECURITY. free of the constant shadow or thread of tension/stress/wariness. I know this in itself is the negativity that Gupta speaks of...but when does it actually extinguish? Actually "managing" this thing with Gupta is a bloody stress in itself!!
when you first start Gupta, it is like a miracle cure, and in our excitement we tend to wax on how great it is (and to a point it is), but who here is saying they are "cured"?
I have not heard one person
Not one.
Cured means living your life in freedom...natural. free from disproportionate stress responses, abnormal fear/anxiety responses, and random depressive episodes. free from random mood swings, irritability and angry outbursts because your internal nervous system is so on edge. But hey, that fatigue isn't there. But it is...in some form...one way or another. I am thankful I am not in bed all the time...but it still looms as a possibility. And whilst the "essence" or intrinsic substrate that this is built upon remains, I can never say i am "cured".
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Re: a cure or not?

Postby Recovery Soon » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:23 pm

I was one of the first on the Gupta program when it first came out 3 years ago.

My opinion after all this time, carefully examining my own experience, and the testimony of others, is that Gupta cannot be called a cure by any reasonable stretch. In fact, Gupta himself admitted so on a Prohealth interview a while back.

What makes it so confounding is his loose/creative definition of the word "recovery." Recovery to him, means being dramatically better, but being unfit because of inactivity due to CFS. Yet, a full recovery, or a cure, would have to include a complete cessation of Post Exertional Malaise, the hallmark CFS symptom. That, in my opinion, is the litmus test.

Some people have CFS, but seem to be able to aerobically workout at a gym for an hour or so. I don't quite understand that. My experience, which I believe is the norm for CFS, is that 24 to 36 hours later, I am hit with an explosion of near debilitating symptoms. Gupta has not made a dent in this reaction.

That said, I think I am in a unique position to evaluate the program, because I am a long term meditator. In fact, I credit Gupta, with giving my meditation practice a much needed boost. In the past 3 years I have gone on several week long silent meditation retreats, and really upped my commitment to simply observe the unfolding of my symptoms for long stretches every single day. This has dramatically changed my relationship to the symptoms, and paid great dividends from an emotional perspective. And it appears to lower their impact.

I am generally accepting of the symptoms and condition, and not bombarded by anxiety, as is commonly reported. Of course here and there it does arise, as there are stress abnormalities with CFS. But for the most part, I'm emotionally strong and top of things. And have been for a long time.

He is right that the stress compounds CFS very dramatically. Where he is wrong in my opinion, is that stress CAUSES CFS. After 3 years, I just don't see any indication that this is the case. In my meditation experience, I have experienced profound states of bliss, for extended periods of time, yet the underlying core condition has not changed one iota. In fact, I would highly doubt that healthy people ever experience the tranquility and peace I regularly access through meditation. And yet, the condition persists. Even though I generally don't resist- which is his recipe for recovery.

I believe Gupta has compiled a wonderful program to deal with any CHRONIC ILLNESS. The tools are wonderful for changing your relationship to illness, which provides relief, and lowers the symptoms. I think MS patients, and many others would see just as much benefit. In fact I think he could and should repackage this as a mind/body program for living with any Chronic Illness.

But the cure discussion, or "full recovery" discussion is misleading. He implies that the common experience of people is to get fully recovered. Clearly it is not. There have been anecdotes of a person here or there who have gotten fully better- but CFS can be such a large umbrella of illness, that it is not clear that those few, isolated examples actually had the clinical definitions of CFS. And even if they did, their numbers are way too sparse to ever suggest there is any good reason to believe this program might cure you. If you choose to creatively define "recovery," as Gupta has done, then perhaps we are all recovered. But I think it's clear that there is a little misrepresentation going on.

STOP, STOP, STOP has not STOP STOP STOPPED CFS.

But, the targeted approach of the program has lessened all of the original anxieties that really make this condition unlivable.

One more thing, is that Gupta's overall theory loosely relates to the neuroscience conducted by Professor Joseph Ledeoux. It is highly questionable that Ledeoux would actually support this theory as the cause of CFS.
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