Full recoveries...To be Fair...

[Recovery Soon]

WIth me, there's no confusion about what constitutes recovery.

Today I have soreness in my throat, a toxic taste in my mouth, and aches down the back of my neck. All of this could disappear tomorrow. But these are symptoms I know to be my version of CFS.

If I was to attempt aerobic exercise the repercussions would be severe.

Tomorrow I may feel great. Even might think the CFS has left. But the core irregularity, be it from the amygdala, or anywhere else is still there.

When I no longer experience uncomfortable symptoms, get penalized for normal exercise, alcohol consumption, or shifts in my routine, such as the time I go to sleep, I will know I am cured or near cured.

The fear part I can manage. I try not to base my assessments on my state of mind. The actual physical symptoms and limitations, I think are more objective indicators for me.

I've had this "illness" roughly 2.5 years, and was EXTREMELY fit before it struck, so I remember well the feeling of wellness.

When I start having to question whether I have CFS anymore, I'll know things are fundamentally changing.

And to test that hypothesis, I will run for 20 minutes on treadmill.

If I don't feel like a Mack truck hit me 3 days afterwards, I'll really know!

[Ursula]

"Does this mean that allergies and food intolerances will also go away?"

The only thing I can definitely say is that in my case, yes, it was like this.
But as already observed by others, the set of symptoms in different individuals seems to be very variable. And I never had problems with allergies and food intolerances before I contracted CFS.

Maybe there are others who tended to have these problems even before, maybe without even knowing. Some massive food intolerances do have genetic reasons and probably need to be respected as such.
Other intolerances may very well be created by an amygdala driving crazy. With allergies and chemical sensitivities, I think there is a huge chance that the amygdala is playing a role in their genesis, therefore it should be possible to get rid of them through amygdala retraining.

In this context, I'm just now recalling a friend who has been suffering from hayfever for decades. She recently told me that she had achieved some definite improvement through consciously telling herself things like "I'm enjoying to be out in nature. I don't want to hide away. I don't want to be troubled by this kind of stuff."
She's nothing to do with CFS, she's not on guptaprogramme, she did this just out of herself, and noted a positive effect ...

In the end of the day this may mean that certain allergies and intolerances may be caused by an overreaction of the amygdala, hence can be retrained. And this may be true even for people who don't have CFS or Fibromyalgia. This is one example for Ashok's presumption his new concept may turn out valid for a wider range of chronic illnesses which he bapatized as Amygdala Conditioned Syndromes.

Something else: Mike, I really like your thoughtful reply in this thread! It's a fine roundup of it all, and displaying a good, healthy attitude.

My kindest regards to everybody!
Ursula

[Recovery Soon]

Somehow I get the feeling that when anyone probes deeper into this Amygdala theory than surface level enthusiasm it is viewed as negative.

[efly]

Id just like to say,,,,Ihad dreadful food intolerances.chemical insensitivies.shocking Gut. etc.......98%gone !
Efly

[damask-rose]

My word! You're going great guns elfly. Did you do anything special to get rid of them or was it just a by-product of the STOPs?

I can tolerate bread and dairy more than before, but I still don't feel comfortable eating them regularly.

[JR]

Yes, efly, I'd love to know if you targeted the chemical sensitivities specifically, or was it just a by product of doing the whole program. What sort of sensitivity were you experiencing? So glad to hear you're doing so much better!

[efly]

Hi all.
I just ate what i wanted and tried not to ''fear the food''.or be fearful of the reaction. Doing the Ar and soften and flow. Its all part of the same problem.... The brain [amygdala] is stimulating the immune system ....creating the immune reactions from food, dust, paint, fumes ,drugs etc...anything the body considers foreign or a threat.Some days the wind worries me.temperature changes...? It all seems to make sense with Ashoks theory of what is going on ...why we are sooo fragile. TheAmygdala has gone NUTS. Instead of removing the food..fix where it is coming from
.I tried a very strict diet once for 6 weeks ...of only 5 foods....[before ashok] got weaker and weaker] we need the nutrients to function.Im on a healthy diet.
We all have to keep doing it !
Health to us all
efly

[Recovery Soon]

I don't have chemical sensitivities but it seems to be the same underlying mechanism as post exertional malaise.

I haven't tries to exercise for quite a while, minus push-ups in the morning, which are pretty well received. Aerobic exercise seems pretty much suicide at this point, so I went for weightlifting session 2 days ago. I could've lifted more, and gone for more time, but all in all put in a significant workout for a person with CFS.

The result, as expected, a triggering of symptoms roughly 24 hours later.

As Elfy mentioned with her food experiment, I have tried the techniques on these reactions, and although they have not completely stopped them, I believe my reaction is less severe than it otherwise would have been.

But here's my point: Just like Elfy gets triggered to food...I (and most of us) get triggered by exercise. But the intriguing part is that is occurs WELL after the fact...36 hours, as I said.

So, that said...there must be something in the body's natural exercise repair/recovery system which triggers CFS symptoms.

I find this interesting and perplexing. I am not getting these reactions because I am an unfit person who is attempting exercise. I am getting them because something, some protein, some chemical, some whatever must be released 36 hours after the exercise that triggers the CFS reaction, just like ELFY and others are triggered by food or chemicals.

In previous posts I have made much ado about the percentage of recovery being important...I of course want 100% recovery. Yet, the more I dissect this issue, it seems that what I am really now finding a way to articulate is that what I define recovery as is not 95 or 100%, but rather a state in which my reactions are not triggered by exercise, alcohol, stress, whatever.

This is the state of retraining I think that really defines recovery, or cure.

This may seem a mundane analysis to some, but it really has illuminated for me where my expectations are, and my understanding of what is going on in my my body.

I am not always "sick" per se, but I am always on the verge of being triggered, and being in this position by default is explained as being sick. It is also why people say I look healthy, but I know I'm always a hair trigger away from a toxic release of symptoms.

I guess this has changed my view of things. These reactions/triggerings need to be retrained until they are extinguished, and then I can pursue any activity as a normal person can, regardless of my level of fitness. Because an unfit person will not be "triggered" exercise, they will simply get sore and tired...a big difference from CFS.

It is my hope that this program, and these techniques are retraining these reactions.

In fact, just like ELFY's food experiment, I am now wondering if a good strategy might be to exercise within reason, knowing it will trigger symptoms and intentionally use the techniques on them, as way of directly retraining my specific triggers. As opposed to simply waiting til I am healthy enough to exercise using this program.

Perhaps this targeted approach may strike at the heart of my most challenging triggers, and in so doing, retrain and extinguish them.

[Sylvia]

Recovery Soon,

Why bother to exercise at all? If you are getting post exertional fatigue you are doing more then your body can cope with.

Exercise will not make you better faster or cure you. Your energy deficits are not coming from that.

I currently can walk really fast for a half hour every single day. In 20 years I couldn't even walk for 15 minutes casual more than every few days. And its not like I ever gave up trying to exercise.

I think patience is key and not overanalysis. It will not help you. In fact that thinking is needing the technique. The question of how well will you get, is it really 100% need to have the stop technique done on it. It is merely obsessive thinking. Which keeps the stress response going. It is simple anxiety.

A retrainer advice unasked for I know.

Sylvia

[Recovery Soon]

Sylvia,

the advice is fine. However, it presupposes I have not tried what you suggest. I have. Just waiting and being patient, and regularly doing the technique has not brought me appreciably better than the plateau I've been on for well over a year. With analysis. Without it. Hasn't made much difference. I'm not a couple months into the program. I'm well, well along.

What I am trying to do is get to the core of the problem, now that I have let time and time and time pass. There are missing pieces to this illness that the theory does not explain in my opinion. Ashok's 80 - 95% recovery definitions don't make logical sense. An unfit person without CFS does not get sick a day after exercise, but I do. Even though most of the time I function at a level that most people would consider 80 - 90%.

As I said in the last post, there are 2 kinds of people with CFS - The bedbound crew- who are understandably thrilled when they regain the ability to walk around outdoors. Many are content just to be out out bed. And then there's the rest of us, who are functional, working, but not able to live a very free, satisfying life because of our limitations. I guess I could go on indefinitely being patient and hoping, and happy I'm not bed-bound. But it really hasn't gotten me far.

If it weren't for Ashok's over-analysis in the first place there would no Gupta Amygdala Retraining Program.

[shefin]

Recovery Soon,

I understand your point here and I actually think your suggestion of doing the exercise, allowing yourself to be exhausted and then doing the techniques on those feelings makes sense.

I find I have to do that sort of thing frequently. Since I work full-time and am in social situations (which wear me out) frequently, I can't help but over extend myself much of the time and I find that I am often re-evaluating my reactions and Stopping them and then imagining how I want to be feeling instead. Relaxing into them does help but only to a point. It seems I have to work on changing them in my head as well--in a relaxed fashion. I don't know if that makes sense. But varying what you have been doing and allowing yourself the exhaustion--to a point--and then dealing with it head-on may work better for you! I don't know. Ashok would probably have better advice for you than I but I DO understand your point here. I find to a certain extent I have to analyze my reactions in order to change them.

[Recovery Soon]

Thanks Shelfin. The funny thing in my case is that the exercise has not made me exhausted, but given me the flu. That's my version of CFS. My body is still very strong, which is what makes sitting and waiting around that much more difficult. I am very physically capable, but the reactions/triggerings haven't stopped.

Hopefully, this exercise thing will gradually diminish the reactions, and I'll be able to do more and more. No idea. But I'm tired of waiting around to recover. If I'm rebounded enough next week, I'll try snowboarding. And then do the symptoms again on the reactions afterwards.

It might all be futile. But let's see. Not much to lose here.

[shefin]

Good luck! I hope it works for you!