Finding God

[CS1]

Hi

All this worry is driving our amygdala and adrenaline and causing all these issue.

Im at a stage where im doing better but I have started to concentrate on my own SPIRTUALITY and trusting in god and it seems to be working and reinforcing my recovery. I visualise god during my meditations and even included him in my STOP technique.

My core issues seem to be feeling lonely and abandoned due to my upbringing - its good to get this off my chest and I know its aiding in my recovery.





Regards
CS

[CS1]

Curious how many people are tackling the SPIRITUAL aspects?



Ashok mentioned that he read " conversations with GOD" book.

[Emergo]

Although God is not my thing, I have been exploring the spiritual path for the last 1,5 years. I do this on a practical level - getting more in touch with myself (not so much adoring a guru or a God or trying to feel bliss all the time).

I have several tool to get there. Daily meditation is one of them.
With EFT I have been able to tackle a lot of emotional issues that block happiness and calmness.
The Art of Living course also helped me a lot to get more balanced.
Finally, I'd like to mention Deepak Chopra's "The seven laws of succes". It's a little book and it down-to-earth and practical and steers clear of the - imho sometimes too much "spaced out" - spiritual stuff that I don't seem to 'get'.

I feel very happy to have changed my search from "totally physical" to a more emotional path.

[niaholt]

I respect everyones view of where they find God. I have been definitely on a more spiritual path. I too am not into the the conventional form of GOD , but see a universal source outside myself with power an an energy greater than me, from which I draw strength.

I feel I am more in touch with nature, simplicity now days. I have no appetite for materialism, and would now love to live in tent under the stars somewhere peaceful in our wonderful climate here, where I can embrace the universe in its totality with its many tantalizing joys ....that is where God lies for me.

[Jj85]

I'm glad someone brought this up. I do think that, if and when I do get better from all of this, I'll have a much healthier, calmer, and happier life. I never would have gotten into Buddhism or meditation if it weren't for this disease, and when I think now about how I used to relate to all of this-- and other problems in my life-- compared to how I do now, the difference is actually fairly substantial.

I've often wondered if there's any correlation between this disease and not believing in God. As an agnostic, I realized that, once I was really sick and feeling vulnerable, I really missed the belief that God was always looking out for me (which I had when I was younger). Without God, we have little to fall back on when we're feeling really weak. It's not that I returned to God because of all of this, but I certainly have gotten more into spirituality.

[Recovery Soon]

I've had enormous spiritual faith since childhood, and a 10 year meditation practice, and still got CFS. So, I don't think your agnosticism caused your CFS.

But spirituality definitely can help on the road to healing.

[Jj85]

I don't think agnosticism caused it either. I merely think that it makes having it a little tougher, maybe.

I'm actually very interested to know: before coming down with CFS, were you a calm person, or constantly stressed, or... somewhere in between? I'm assuming that your meditation practice must have meant you were at least... somewhat calm, for lack of a better word. I really want to put all of my faith into the Gupta program, and other techniques like it, but I always get a bit worried when I hear that someone that was already pretty calm got CFS anyway.

[Recovery Soon]

Good question.

I was very stressed the year before getting CFS, and I generally am a stressed-driven-type A personality type.

In hindsight, although I did meditate religiously every day for roughly 45 mins (for 8 years prior to CFS), I think the year before I was clocking my time in on the cushion and allowing my mind to wander to negative thoughts through much of it. I really let a lot of life situations get very negative, and I thought meditation was a cure-all - it's not.

That said- over the past year I have really dedicated myself to deepening my practice - I've gone to week long silent, intensive retreats, meditate a couple times a day, attend a weekly meditation sitting at a center with teachers, just began using the stress eraser on top of all the meditation, and will be doing the Art Of Living Program in 2 weeks. I also changed careers, where now I have 11 weeks off a year.

Although stress clearly plays a major role in CFS, I"m not sure that all of this effort will actually CURE my CFS. It might, who knows. I do know that it helps with the symptoms. For sure.

But given the amygdala theory, I just don't understand how my "adrenaline cycles" have not been shut off at this point.

There's really not a lot more I can do to calm my system down.

Hopefully this is not discouraging to you, but that's where I'm at now.

It seems to me that the Gupta techniques are more effective at managing symptoms rather than reversing the underlying mechanism of CFS.

Nothing to date has come close to putting a dent into the Post Exertional Malaise- which is the hallmark of CFS.

I'm still open to curing with Gupta...but haven't felt personal evidence of it yet, with much diligence and patience.

The only added thing I might try is to incorporate a daily visualization session. I only do that now and again.

[Jj85]

Yeah, that's sort of the idea I get. There have been times over the past couple months where I really have felt completely healthy. But then I overdo it with exercise and fall back completely (this time around, if/when I get healthy again, I'm making a commitment to start really slow). I can offer some good news though. Once I started meditating, I was able to handle more exercise.

It used to be I'd be healthy for a few months, then relapse for a week. Then, exercise seemed to enter the equation-- lifting weights or going for runs would cause a relapse, each one more painful and longer-lasting than the one before it. What was scary was that each time I got healthy, smaller amounts of exercise would cause relapses. Eventually it got to the point where going for a semi-long walk was bad enough. So the trend, obviously, was looking really bad. I was worried that if it continued, I'd eventually be bed-bound.

But once I started meditating (and this was before I learned about Gupta), everything started to reverse. Now, at the very least, months after the reversal, I can go on walks as much as I please. I only relapse if my heart rate goes up for an extended period. I still have symptoms-- it's just that going for walks doesn't make them any worse. Anyway, I thought I'd share that, only to say that maybe Gupta is right, and eventually we really will be completely healthy again simply through calming down. Hopefully you'll find this somewhat reassuring.

[Recovery Soon]

Yeah- it's good to hear.

By exercise, how much (and what kind) can you do?

I can walk without much problem - but I'm pretty sure a run or cardio of any sort would be disastrous.

A few times a year I lift weights lightly, but that's about it.

I've heard of the graded exercise theory, but I don't think that would help me, because my dips are consistent even without the exercise.

There's no way I could sustain a gradual increase of exercise with a predictable cycle of dips periodically taring me down.

What is it that you can handle?

[Jj85]

Right now, I can walk, and I can handle lifting weights with really low reps (this way, even with a heavy weight, since it's only one or two reps, I don't get winded). It seems that, like you, any cardio will put me over the edge.

As far as I can tell, going on walks is actually beneficial. I get fresh air and can clear my mind, and just being somewhat active makes me feel a little better. Even if I'm feeling tired, I usually force myself to do it. As for graded exercise, that's my plan if and when I get back to being 100%. I just need to make sure I do it really slowly if I do get the chance.

Are your dips completely unpredictable? How long have you been on Gupta, and how much have you improved since starting it? My hope is that once I get home for winter break in December (right now I'm at school), I'll really be able to de-stress (worrying about class and brain fog isn't great for calming your amygdala...) and heal. If I'm able to do that, then I might start trying to expand on my exercise a little bit. If I get to that point, I'll be sure to let you know how that goes.

[Recovery Soon]

Some dips are predictable and others aren't.

Right now I'm in a big one because a week ago I went drinking til 4AM.

I only do it 2 or 3 times a year, and this the time, and I'm paying for it,

But it's not like a big dip at once, it's a steady increase of fatigue and symptoms which have been steadily rising. It may last 2 weeks, maybe over a month...who knows.

The unpredictable dips will occur with no particular trigger. This is what makes getting cured seem so unlikely for me. No matter how well I take care of myself, the unpredictable dips do not stop.

I've been on Gupta 2 years. I saw an increase initially (within the first 2 months) which has maintained, but not increased.

It seems in my case that pre-Gupta I was living in a way that inflame the symptoms...and that the positivity and techniques of Gupta put me on a better lifestyle/thinking track. What does not seem clear to me is that my underlying condition has changed in any discernible way.

I agree with you that activity is necessary. Prior to Gupta I avoided all activity, which made it much worse. Now I know that activity is necessary to keep symptoms in check. That's why working for me, or in your case, school for you, is so necessary.

My theory is that people end up bedbound because they fear activity so much that they condition themselves into helplessness.

Even now there are days, this week in fact, where every impulse in body is to not get out of bed...yet going against this grain, with the faith and knowledge that I will feel better in a couple hours gives me the motivation to resist the urge and get up and going, as awful as it feels at the time.

If you don't resist the urge and you stay in bed it only compounds the symptoms. I really believe this is why and how people get bed bound.

I also believe it explains why so many bed bound CFS people get better with Gupta, yet few sufferers, at least as evidenced by the anecdotes I see on the web, seem to get fully cured of the condition.

I think it does a great job of managing symptoms. But not convinced of it's curative value yet.

[fox]

@ Recovery Soon,
you said: "I was very stressed the year before getting CFS, and I generally am a stressed-driven-type A personality type. "

I guessw, this oculd be the problem. Being a "stressed-driven-type A personality type" might be exactly the cause for ME/CFS!

It actually indicates a overactive nervous-system, which probably is the main cause of this illness!
You have to relax so much, until you're no longer a stressed-driven type A personality type, otherwise there might be no chance to healing!!

Even if you meditate 6 hours a day, if the rest of the day you're nervous system is overreactive, it is all to no avail!

[Recovery Soon]

True.

But, I don't feel I am like that now. Or why other stressed-driven-type-A's don't get CFS?

I do see how stress intensifies symptoms and how symptoms intensify stress- but I haven't really seen the reverse.

For example, I've gone on 7 day mediation retreats, where the experience of peace bordered on ecstatic for days on end- yet I was sick through much of it.

Or why I can rack up points on the stress eraser, which indicates a good parasympathetic reaction. (although on bad dip days- it is hard for the stress eraser to find my pulse- which is interesting).

This is all what makes me scratch my head about the amygdala reaction.

[Jj85]

It's probably not that you have to be type A to get CFS, but it does seem like the vast majority of people who do get it are type A. It's also probably the case that you need other predisposing factors in order to get it, or else, as you say, everyone who was type A would probably get it at some point in their life.

I never considered myself a type A person-- I'm not a perfectionist, I go with the flow, etc etc-- and I think that may be one reason why I've had some success in getting better. When I think back to when I got sick, I was simply very stressed about very particular things, even though, by nature, I'm a pretty relaxed person.

Anyway, I think we'll eventually find out that Gupta was only half-right. That by relieving stress and re-training our amygdala, we're better able to let our bodies heal naturally (since the immune system won't be weakened by stress), but that there actually is, probably, something physically wrong with us that our immune system really needs to defeat.

One thing I've always wondered was how I could get sick for a week, and then feel better for 3 months (which is how I had it for the first year and a half-- I'd call these periods "mono relapses," since that's how they felt in every way, including particular symptoms like migraines centered on my eyes). Why wouldn't the vicious circle start right away the first time I got sick? Having these unexplainable symptoms was always very stressful, and yet I would get better. So, I don't know. I think there's still a lot left to be discovered.